Celebrating South Asian Heritage Month with Kavita Singh

Sally Glarvey: Hi, everybody. I'm Sally Glarvey and I'm Head of DE&I and Wellbeing here at Gowling. And I'm delighted to be here today speaking with Kavita Singh as part of our South Asian Heritage Month celebration. This is the third year celebrating South Asian Heritage Month, which seeks to commemorate, mark and celebrate South Asian culture, the history and community.

One element of this for us as a firm is to celebrate and showcase role models to really highlight the importance of diversity and inclusion. And so that is why Kavita has very kindly agreed to come and speak with us today. Kavita is a general counsel, internationally experienced corporate lawyer of 32 years, with deep experience of building, managing, transforming and leading multi-jurisdictional legal teams within listed multinational corporations across the energy and healthcare sectors. And in addition to this, she has also served on the boards of various organisations across industries.

So, thank you, Kavita, for joining us today, and we’re really looking forward to hearing more about you, your career and your experiences.

So, I thought it would be good to start today, straight off, with finding out a little more about yourself, about you, I wondered if you could give us a brief introduction, and an overview of your career so far, to begin with.

Kavita Singh: Sure, absolutely. And thank you for having me, Sally. And thanks for facilitating these meaningful dialogues around DE&I and really shining a spotlight on this area. So, it's a pleasure to speak with you.

So, in terms of my story professionally, I've been a lawyer for over 30 years. I read law at Cambridge University in the 80s and qualified as a solicitor in England and then Hong Kong in the early 90s. I spent the initial six years of my career at an international law firm before moving in-house, and throughout my career I've been really lucky to have had the opportunity to live in various countries, work across continents, and experience truly multicultural environments. Substantively, I'd say my in-house career has been with, UK FTSE-listed plcs, as well as various New York-listed Fortune 500 global corporations.

And in my role as general counsel or chief legal officer in various industries, my job has principally involved leading international in-house legal departments and multidisciplinary teams in multiple jurisdictions. So across the EMEA, Asia Pacific and LATAM. And as part of holding the chief legal officer role, I've also held board positions within the company that I've worked for and I've been part of the C-suite or the Executive Leadership team, which provides governance, strategy and leadership for international operations.

And finally, outside of the law, I've held various net or non-executive board positions in sport, one within the foundation of the profession, football club within the English Football League, and also a board position with a professional cricket club. In the education sector, I've served on the board of leading Russell Group Invest in the UK. And you know, from a personal perspective, I'm of Indian heritage. I'm the daughter of immigrants who came to the United Kingdom from India in the 1960s, and I was born and raised in Yorkshire in the UK. And I'm a very proud member of our country's BAM community.

Sally: Fabulous. I mean, what a career so far. There is just so much there isn't there to talk about, and such opportunity about internationally. I think that there's just so much opportunity that you've had already with an international lens.

So, you're obviously seeing I can imagine so many different cultures, and ways of life out there. So that's been fabulous.

Kavita: Absolutely.

Sally: So that brings me probably nicely onto the next question actually. So, you started your legal career at Clifford Chance and worked across a variety of different geographies and have continued to work internationally. How do you think that has helped you develop, in your career? And what did you learn from those experiences in terms of international?

Kavita: Yeah, sure. I mean, it's helped a great deal. I'd say that Clifford Chance gave me the best possible start in my career because, you know, like Gowling, it's a truly global cross-border organisation. And as part of your job every day, you know, you're lucky enough to have the opportunity to gain first hand experience of various legal systems across the world, various client types and transaction types. But, you know, most importantly, you get experience and exposure to a truly global set of people based personally, professionally and I've always been really curious and fascinated by the variety of cultures across the world, which I've really enjoyed learning from, whilst, of course, being very proud and true to my own culture.

But I think what really accelerated my learning and development to my commercial and cultural awareness was the opportunity to go on various client secondments and operating different environments, and also to work in various offices across the world. And I would highly recommend those opportunities to any lawyers they become available to you, because there's really no better way to develop your cultural intelligence other than sort of via hands on and a deep immersion in different environments, and really taking yourself out of your comfort zone and testing yourself and getting to know yourself in different, diverse environments and I'm firmly of the belief that in our profession technical excellence is just the starting point. It is not in itself enough. And what truly differentiates an individual is that emotional intelligence, cultural intelligence and their ability to modify delivery styles depending on the regions, depending on your circumstances. And I think truly it's those soft skills which allow you to read the room, understand the concerns and drivers in the minds of our counterparts. And those are the skills that you know, your approach, your cultural understanding, your commercial understanding, I think really differentiate and are the keys to success.

Sally: Yeah, I mean, fabulous. I couldn't agree more. I think that we're seeing something very similar now, especially in the DE&I team working more closely with our counterparts in Canada and obviously in Germany. And like you say, to really sort of live and breathe it and to understand it, it's it's great to be there as well, trying to try and understand how they were.

I think that leads really nicely again, as if by magic, onto the next question actually, which is around obviously D&I. So, D&I is a cornerstone of what we do at Gowling, and I'd like to hear your perspectives, as a GC, predominantly, on what you consider when instructing firms in terms of D&I,
what are the thoughts that you have? And, how do you start where do you even begin?

Kavita: D&I is really important to us, and as a general counsel, I'm really happy to share a client's perspective about why diversity is so important. First, within our own in-house legal teams, and equally, because we view you, our outside counsel as an extension of our own in-house legal teams. Why your diversity is equally of critical importance to us. And as buyers of legal services, which we are, we do try to deploy our legal budget and use our purchasing power to further the EDI agenda, where we can.

And I'd say that's sort of three key reasons why we care. And first, purely selfishly, is we want the best possible advice. That's out there. And to any panel law firm, like I say, technical expertise - that's just the starting point. It's a basic expectation. And it's not in itself enough. What we need is creative, fresh, innovative solutions to complex problems. We need diverse thinking, less groupthink, a plurality of opinions and perspectives around the table. And diversity is the real value proposition, and it's a differentiator that brings, us the required breadth and depth of perspectives which enable us to make the best judgement calls in. It's really having access to that multitude of lived experiences,
which allows the firm to create a more personalised and intensive client service.

And I'd say certainly that the collective intelligence of, cultural agility that a diverse advisory team brings really enhances our offering and our approach to business. And it helps us be more effective at reading and understanding stakeholder concerns in a variety of environments, whether that's, sitting across the table, negotiating and emanating or just setting out litigation strategy, settlement, strategy for a particular transaction.

So diverse teams, I think, are what give us the edge. And in terms of relationship building, I think the client law firm experience is often about fetes. And, can start with the potential clients first interaction with your firm, even with your marketing content. And often it's sort of an intuitive call. And I think that fielding a diverse team can definitely help a client feel more orientated towards you. And because, client engagement is fundamentally underpinned by trust and alignment values, does definitely help achieve that trusted advisor status, where the client is eventually willing to bring you into that inner circle, and perhaps then, involve you in more strategic planning, in-house concerns rather than pure execution.

A couple of other points, I'd say why we can why it's important is to serve effectively. We need to be a true reflection of our clients and customers. And that's the same in every field. So our profession has to be reflective, a wider society where to remain truly relevant and effective. And we need as many voices, backgrounds, perspectives as possible to best serve our communities and be good lawyers, so that's fundamental to that. I think it's important.

And I suppose the last point that's certainly important to me is as a recruiter and a as lawyers into our teams, is that we want to attract and retain the best talent. And as an international legal team, diversity is a key employer value proposition, and having a diverse team allows us to appeal to the widest talent pool of potential candidates and to attract and retain the best legal professionals in every market. We're very deliberate about nurturing a truly diverse talent pipeline for that reason. And seeing as, significant talent source for in-house departments, it is you. It's external lawyers. So it that makes complete sense for us to collaborate with law firms and, you know, encourage the improvement of in this space within our preferred panel law firms.

Sally: Fabulous. Thank you so much. And such really good main points there. So, another question then we a slightly sort of a separate to the external, side of the, the law firm. So, you've been a non-executive director, on the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, the largest cricket club in the world, and as a board trustee of Huddersfield Town FC Foundation as well. So, those are two very huge clubs. Why is diversity at board level so important, do you think? What makes it so important and why do we need to be to be diverse on these boards?

Kavita: That's a great question. It's really important. I mean, I think there is a plethora of evidence
which shows that organisations with diverse leadership and more profitable, they simply do better.

They fare better commercially than those where there's a lack of diversity of thought and representation, and diverse boards better represent the diversity of customer and stakeholder interests. And I actually believe there's still a significant underrepresentation of women on boards and diverse board representation generally. I feel it should remain an absolute priority that these gaps are addressed both across the industry, the corporate commercial world and within other sectors such as sport. We have to be relevant to the people that we serve.

Sally: Yeah, and I totally agree with that. And I actually sit on a cricket club board myself, interestingly, and when we were recruiting, it was something that they were very keen to do to make sure that we were diverse. What do you think firms can do and can be doing to increase the diversity at board level? Is there a, you know, do you feel there's anything specific that we should be doing that perhaps we're not doing currently?

Kavita: Well, I think a lot of firms, engage in some great initiatives. But I suppose law firms need to understand what role they can play, because lawyers make excellent board members, not necessarily because of their legal or technical skills, but because of their advanced governance and transaction management and organisational skills.

And, your senior lawyer will have honed a vast array of commercial and advisory skills throughout their career. They're generally articulate, intelligent, not afraid to check and challenge, and they're able to be impartial and a critical friend. Management and those skills are honed on the job, as part of a client relationship and as part of our, our professional, dealings. So, I believe that lawyers are uniquely placed to go on boards. And I'd encourage any lawyers thinking about it to start their board journey perhaps with a not for profit, a charity, or even a local school board to develop those governance skills and sort of cut your teeth at that level.

And I'd say you ask the question right, specifically, what can law firms do? I think law firms can continue to make their training more holistic, pair lawyers for roles outside of the stroke day job, and hone skills which could prepare lawyers for the full trajectory of their career up to non-executive level, because I think it's mutually beneficial. If our lawyers take places on boards, at the end of the day, that's beneficial to everyone, including the law firm.

Sally: Totally, and it really is beneficial, I couldn’t agree more, and I would also really encourage that kind of opportunity for people to take up. Thinking back now, to the cultural experiences that we were talking about. We know how important it is as an international law firm with offices across Europe, Canada, Middle East, Asia. From your opinion, from your perspective, what can people do to try and improve, not only they cross-cultural but also emotional intelligence? Do you have any real nuggets of information or hints and tips that just from your own experiences you can provide for us, to provide us with that understanding of how you gain that cultural and emotional intelligence?

Kavita: Again, a great question. I think exposure to different markets and firms, or cross-departmental initiatives are a great way of fostering cross-cultural relationships. You've got that lovely melting pot right there. So, it's about connecting and joining the dots between people so that knowledge sharing, and those experiences can take place. And I'd say a simple idea could be establishing a buddy system. So, comparing individuals from different jurisdictions, different offices for either informal chats periodically storytelling or just more of a formal, more mentoring mentorship program. So, there is that sharing of ideas and awareness that takes place.

One of the things I'd say is be deliberate about marking events such as Christmas, Diwali, Eid, other faith events. It's great learning opportunity for people and as is the storytelling that takes place during, say, weeks like this one. All of it's beneficial, and I'm sure that members of your firm internationally will come up with a host of really good ideas to bring these initiatives forward. And talk about what they would like to hear and what they'd like to learn.

Sally: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that that really ties nicely into, the sort of the final question with regards to the reason that we're actually here today is because it's South Asian Heritage Month. And it would be really good to understand what that month actually means to you?

So, obviously, you've talked about your own, heritage. And it would be really, really interesting to find out from your own perspective, your own personal perspective what that means to you. What does this mean to you?

Kavita: I think things like this are so important. This is South Asian Heritage Month, but there's so many similar things throughout the year that are really important to take time to stop and mark these events because it's a great opportunity to celebrate an individual's identity. And it urges people to take pride and, in their heritage, in their personal narratives. I think it's a real celebration of individuality and urges people to understand that their differences are actually their strengths and it's what makes them special. It gives them the edge. So, I'd say it's also an important opportunity to remind employers to continue to create an environment where every individual can bring their whole authentic self to work. And I really believe that's how you get the best out of people.

So, my advice really to people of South Asian heritage or in fact any heritage, it would be the same.
I mean, understand that diversity is your real strength and believe in yourself. Yeah, you have to love what you do and really always make sure that you're the best prepared person in the room that goes with that saying, but those additional insights, I think really will reap benefits and, and provide true success.

Sally: That's fabulous. Thank you so much, Kavita.

Kavita: It's been a pleasure to speak to you, Sally. And thank you so much.

Sally: Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you.