Condovirus episode 14: Getting ready for a COVID summer

Rod: Okay, well, good evening everybody. My name is Rod Escayola and I'm you condominium lawyer with Gowling WLG. Welcome to Condovirus Episode 14. Tonight's episode, what we're going to do, we're going to prepare you for a COVID summer. Folks, tonight's episode is an important one because I'm sad to report that we're approaching the end of our first season. There was a bit of a vote, internally, and we thought that everybody deserved a bit of a summer break so we collectively decided that we would bring this season to an end, next week, and so next week tune in with your summer drinks. We'll keep our ears to the ground. If something requires that we call our panel together we'll do that, for sure. So two more episodes until you all get to take a bit of a summer break. Now, having said, if we get hit with anne with an E kind of campaign, demanding that the usual suspects show up, we may consider that. We'll see how much of a social following we got. So there it is. So you will recognize your usual cast tonight. I'm going to bring them up here. I think you should see them on your screen. I'm not too sure. Since tonight we're going to prepare you for your summer we've decided, and when I say we it's really me, I'm the only one who decides the theme of the presentation. I decided I'd introduce your team as your favourite summer drinks. That's how we're going to do it. So, from Apollo Property Management, freshly squeezed with a twist of mint, Sean 'Mojito' Cornish. Hi, Sean. How's it going?

Sean: Very well, Rod. You've got me thirsty now.

Rod: Good to go. And, from Crossbridge, speaking on behalf of ACMO, smooth like a Cointreau but with a kick of Tequila, our own Margarita, Katherine Gow. Hi, Katherine.

Katherine: I am looking to actually collect on my cocktail when we all get together once COVID is over.

Rod: Nice. From Lash Condo Law, speaking also on behalf of the Canadian Association Institute of Canada, a classic that never disappoints with many variation, our very Long Island condo lawyer, Denise Lash. Hi, Denise.

Denise: Hi everyone. I love it, Rod. Thanks.

Rod: Our condo twins now. While exotic, yet traditional, shaken, sometime dirty we have David 'Mai Tai' Plotkin. Hi, David.

David: Hi everyone.

Rod: Oh, I think I skipped over Graeme. Part Vermouth, part Campari with a kick of dry Gin, our very own Negroni, Graeme MacPherson. Hi, Graeme.

Graeme: Howdy.

Rod: Finally, red or white, the always reliable but don't your guards down on the summer patio, your pitcher of Sangria, Jason Reid, from the National Life Safety Group. Hi, Jason.

Jason: Good evening, Rod. Thanks for having me again.

Rod: Okay, very good. So, I can read my notes I'm just going to switch back to my non-sunglasses here. The party line is on. The chat line. So, folks, we love reading your comments. We love reading the input and the interaction. Keep it going. But for those of you who want to have your questions brought to our attention, maybe more directly, make sure you put your questions in the Q&A section. If we don't answer it it's because we're busy drinking our summer drinks. Now, housekeeping, as I do every week and by now anybody else would be able to do it on my behalf, I'm going to deal with the disclaimer, just because that's what lawyers do, disclaimers. For those watching this webinar keep the following in mind, please. Whenever we refer to legislation we usually refer to Ontario legislation. So those of you listening from elsewhere please make sure that you adapt the concepts to your jurisdiction. The information we provide tonight to you is, as much as we can, accurate as of the date of this broadcast, June 17^th, 2020. If you watch this later on, in our re-broadcast on demand, make sure that you keep that in mind. The information may have changed since we filmed this. Also, most importantly, keep in mind that the information we give to you tonight, and we dish it out generously, we give it all, but it is of general nature. Right? I mean, it's really worth what you paid for. Right? So just make sure you adapt this to your situation. Make sure you seek proper guidance from your engineers, from your lawyers, from your security advisors, from you managers and, finally, for some reason I have to say that this is being recorded. We'll upload this on the Condo Advisor, condoadvisor.ca. Top corner, webinar. You can watch this on demand. You can binge watch and watch the whole season. The 14 episodes as of today. I think that's for that. Oh, I forgot with the jingle, folks.

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Rod: It's all about the timing. All about the timing. Okay, so these are the topics. I'm going to turn to the condo twins now and can you give us an update, maybe, on re-opening the Province. Where do we stand?

Graeme: Yeah, absolutely. So, we haven't had huge updates. Not like since last time but what we do know is that the orders in place, like right now we are limited to 10 people in a social setting, and the order with respect to what businesses can be open. Those have all been extended until June 30^th, 2020. Which coincides with when the Declaration of Emergency is extended to as well. We'll have to keep playing it by ear as we have done and see what happens when we get to that time. In terms of other news, a couple more regions have moved on to Stage 2 of re-opening, as of Friday. You can see them all listed down here. Durham, Haldimand, Hilton, Hamilton, Lambton, Niagara and York regions. So welcome to Stage 2 as of Friday. Then the following three regions are still in Stage 1, for now but we're getting there, Peel, Toronto and Windsor-Essex region. At least in Ontario, all gyms still remain closed, but I believe in Quebec that's no longer the case.

Rod: They're about to re-open most gyms and so far, for those keeping track, Quebec appears to have been a couple of days before Ontario. So I'm not sure who's copying who here but I wonder? I wonder if that is a sign of what's coming our way? I'm not too sure.

Graeme: We'll have to keep playing that by ear. Then there's been an announcement, well an announcement, the news has reported that the government is considering introducing some sort of good faith and unity from COVID-19 law suits. David, would you be able to jump in and elaborate a little bit on that?

David: Sure. I saw this reported by a number of different news sources. It's one of those stories where I think it's being reported before we actually have any real information on it. There are certain, let's call it lobby groups or industry groups, that are seeking certain protection, certain degree of immunity for civil law suits. Think of things like the long term care homes. We've already seen that it has been subject to a number of class action suits. Think of medical establishments. Hospitals. So there is some discussion behind the scenes and introducing some sort of legislation that would kind of raise the standard from regular negligence up to gross negligence. So basically allowing a little bit of breathing room to protect certain people, or institutions, from law suits. We have no indication that it's going to change anything in the Condo Act, as of yet, or it's going to apply more broadly then specific industry groups. Just to keep in mind, as always, your standard of care as directors, is always the same under section 37 and 38 of the Act. Act diligently, honestly in good faith and exercise skill that a reasonably prudent person, in comparable circumstances, would exercise. I just wanted to emphasize that, in comparable circumstances, so it's possible that our Act already foresees a little bit of additional leeway for such extreme circumstances like we're in.

Rod: Okay. Wonderful.

Graeme: Something that I would just jump on, to add to that too, is even when we do see this and even if something does come out and it does apply to condos, which again we're in a world of speculation at this time, if this is indeed a good faith immunity, I think it's just worth noting a word of caution that if we do get news that there's going to be some sort of good faith immunity for condos, that does not mean throw caution to the wind. Open everything. Who cares? The new legislation is going to protect us. Because I think if you do that, that's probably the textbook example of bad faith, and specifically not what the legislation would apply to.

Rod: Okay. Perfect. Let's move on to the next topic. Tonight we're going to focus mainly on re-opening. So getting ready for the COVID summer, which we hope it's not going to be too COVID like, and so we're going to first start with a bit of an update from our managers extraordinaire to see if the lay of the land has changed in any way, shape or form when dealing with patios, barbeques, and so on. Then after that we're going to drill down and Katherine's going to present a form that's been developed where you can sort of prioritize when to open things. Then Sean will drill down on very specific sort of precautions that you could consider when re-opening this or that amenity. So let me turn the mic to Katherine. Any sort of introductory remarks with respect to re-opening any of the amenities we see on the screen?

Katherine: I have some special concerns about specific areas and they have to do with proximity of alcohol based hand cleanser and barbeques. They have to do with your ability to control total numbers once you do open it up and I know that Sean's going to speak in greater detail with respect to making use of private bookings and things of that nature. I remain in Toronto, so the same as Peel and Windsor-Essex, we're some of the few that remain in very strict closure of all of our amenity spaces. If we flip to the next slide where managers in my portfolio, specifically, have contemplated what would be necessary in order to re-open. What they've done is considered each of the independent amenity spaces separately. Looked at what the normal capacity is. Looked at what the frequency of use is. Taken a look at what the figure they would need in order to sanitize and how you would accomplish physical distancing. I think that Sean will articulate some of those in practice, as well. But I think if you haven't already done this kind of analysis and discussed it with your boards and broadly with your communities as well. I think the time is certainly passed to do so. The other contemplations on re-opening and rules and priority and all of the rest of it, has to do with spending priorities. So whether or not you can accomplish all of that extra cleaning and sanitation with existing staff, or whether you'll need additional staff, not only for sanitation but for enforcement and in terms of priorities, based on usage, based on how easy or difficult it is to re-open, some discussion of which one's you're going to put top of the list and which ones you're going to put bottom of the list. That helps everybody be on the same page in terms of what you're waiting for, what you're focusing on and what things you maybe won't be opening this summer for a variety of reasons. In the question and answer section, in particular, somebody had made mention of the hobby room. All of the same considerations would take place in some place like a hobby room. One community that I'm aware of in particular, decided that the hobby room wouldn't be used by individual residents going forward, and what they would use that space for was contractors doing in suite renovations. So that they could cut, make noise outside of the suite, where it was possible in service of folks who are still sheltering at home, predominantly.

Rod: Okay. Going back to the intro, Sean. I don't know if there was anything you wanted to add before you drill down on your section.

Sean: Yeah, actually Rod, what I'd be talking about really can be applied to, in varying degrees, to all of these four items. I think we can probably go straight on to the next.

Rod: Okay.

Sean: Obviously, Katherine and I are experiencing slightly different realities, being in different parts of the Province. We in Eastern Ontario have been a little bit further ahead on the re-opening. Primarily this has impacted on the pool side and outdoor amenity side. The precautions that we came up with were largely devoted towards the pools, initially, because that's where we were first looking at. But minus the changerooms and showers, they would apply to, or could be applied to other amenities as well. So, restricting use to occupants. A key part, obviously, if you have fitness classes in a pool area, you bring in an outside instructor, at this point we would be still cautioning restriction on having outsiders come in. Access to the pool area should be limited to existing staff, lifeguards, cleaners, etcetera, and residents. The occupancy limits on pools are restricted. I mean we already had occupancy limits based on public health guidelines pre-COVID. But those would be reduced now based on the physical distancing requirements. So one of the things we looked at was first coming in the space, you want proper signage, caution residents on proper behaviour, expectations and restrictions, as the case may be. Requiring the completion of a health screen and I know you'll be touching on this a later on, Rod, but this is one of the options to ensure that whether it's on a sign, or a physical questionnaire that residents are required to complete, or an electronic questionnaire when they're booking the space. This would be asking whether they're exhibiting any of the typical symptoms of COVID-19. Whether they've travelled. Have any high risk activities, etcetera. So limiting the number of users, implementing schedules, as again ties into limiting the numbers of users, and that can be done either physically with a monitored presence, staff member controlling access, fob access or electronic controlled access. As well as working through a electronic booking system and, typically, you're looking at the number of users, both to maintain the 2 meter distancing but also with some exceptions for households who can congregate within smaller limits. The sanitizing stations, much like we did in the other common areas now that these spaces are opening up, it would be having easily accessible hand sanitizing stations, with instructions on how to use them, and the requirements for when to use them as well before you enter, upon leaving, etcetera. Katherine touched on the cost. What is the cost to open? It's twofold. One is the financial cost for additional cleaning, for additional materials, as well as the potential cost or risk to the users if guidelines and restrictions are not followed properly. The final one, common tools, chairs, toys, obviously anything that is going to be shared between people should be removed. This includes fixed chairs, should be roped off, or anything with fabric we would recommend removing, fabric cushions, etcetera. If you do have somebody on staff that is available to clean regularly, after every use, then certain of these could be kept available. But minimizing the shared touches will minimize the risk of transmission. Physical distancing measures, again, proper signage. Maybe signage on the ground to show where to stand if you're waiting for something or if you have tight areas where you can't maintain the 2 meter distancing, having directional signage and instructions on how to follow that. Online schedule I touched on. Lots of tools available for that. I know, Rod, you've looked at some of those yourself.

Rod: Yup. Go ahead.

Sean: I was just going to say a lot of existing software programs that are available to condominiums for typical communication also have amenity booking already as part of them. Some of them are offering reduced versions that are strictly amenities booking services if you're not already using their full packages. There's a lot of options available on that side.

Rod: You can sort of make your own if you're at all tech savvy. I'm not sure if we see on the screen this website here and let's just see what it would look like. So booking the gym, well obviously you need to be a member to be able to go in, and this is sort of what it could look like. So you'd be able to book this room, let's say, and it's basically just to reserve it. So I want it on the 18^th. I'm going to use it at 12:30. Then I fill in the information. Confirm the booking. It's just sort of if I was to go back now I'd see that it's blocked off. It can't be used. All sorts of tools out there. There's an app for everything. Okay, so that's for that. Let me move this guy back here. I think we sort of lost Denise but she's hopefully on the phone.

Denise: I am.

Rod: Oh, good stuff.

Denise: I'm here. It's just not visual.

Rod: Okay. I think you spoke about that, Sean, already. I mean these signs are popping up everywhere to remind people to wash their hands. To remind people to keep the distance and I think Katherine was telling us that there, is it the Health Canada website, Katherine?

Katherine: It's the Ontario website. So if you go to ontario.ca and you go to their COVID tools you can see specific signage for virtually any business operation. So if you start thinking through all of the tasks that are done in your condominium corporation, package handling, amenity spaces, shared lunchrooms, any of those types of things. But for your own staff as well as for the residents, there's a sign for that, probably. Whether the sign says everything that you want to or whether you can take some of the images from it in order to use. I think it's a great resource for folks to use. There's also a specific guidance per industry, and again, getting back to all of the tasks that are undertaken in condominiums. Some of the language, some of the thinking, some of the guidance can help each condominium articulate their individual plan. Jason's going to help walk us through that process a little bit later on tonight as well.

Rod: Okay. Well, I looked for my favourite sign out there for social distancing. This is the one that came up. There it is. There's all sorts of signs out there that you can find on the internet. Now something else, and this is going to be Denise and Rod having the great legal debate, it's not going to be much of a debate because we're sort of on the same side of the fence. But there's a lot of talk out there about waivers and whether corporations should have owners sign waivers if they're going to use the amenities. What's interesting is that waivers weren't really used in the past, but people could still have gotten injured in the gym, and we didn't really expect people to sign a waiver. So why are we now turning our minds to waivers? I think I've sort of flipped flopped a bit on this in the sense that I think, contractually, the waiver is exactly what it is and it does what it does. It's got limited value even in the best of circumstances. I don't think any waiver is bulletproof. A lot goes in to the waiver. Did they get independent legal advice? Did they get time to review it? Do they have options? And so on and so forth. So it's of some value, contractually. I think the problem is when we try to implement that in the condominium setting. That's where it sort of doesn't quite fit. So what are your thoughts on this, Denise?

Denise: Well, I'd like to see you try to enforce, or try to get an owner to sign a waiver. So, let's think about it. You decided that maybe you don't really want to clean the gym and just allow owners to sign waivers and go use it. Then an owner says, "I'm not signing a waiver." So are you going to prevent them from using the gym? How are you going to enforce this and prevent owners from using the gym? We've gone back and forth in our group and said, "Well, maybe we should implement a rule that requires people signing waivers. But then again, let's try to enforce the rule. They don't sign the waiver, you prevent them from using the gym, what's going to happen? Are we exposing ourselves to more potential law suits by preventing owners from using the gym? What about the duty to maintain the comment elements, and the corporation not cleaning the gym properly, and then just letting the owners use it?" There's potential liability there. Our group is recommending that you just wait until you feel comfortable, and you get professional advice that the gym's are safe, and not do waivers. Just don't agree on that approach. I know that other lawyers disagree and you know, Rod. I know initially you did disagree with me. But now you've come full circle.

Rod: I always do, Denise.

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Rod: I think the issue with waivers, as you said, is the obligation to maintain a common element rests with the corporations. So you can't really contract out of that. You can't contract out of the Condominium Act and I do see a challenge with what do we do with the owner that doesn't want to sign it. That to me is a problem. If you had a rule that said you must sign a waiver to be able to use the amenities would that rule be reasonable? I'm not sure. I'm far from certain. So I think waivers are a good idea, in theory, on paper, but I'm not sure that it really works in the condominium setting.

Denise: Rod, I think you're better off just putting up a sign. A sign saying you're using this in your risk as opposed to trying to get people to sign waivers and people refusing to sign.

Rod: Right, right. I think, even better and we'll talk about that, if the sign actually reminded people of the precautions that ought to be taken and we'll talk about that. I think there's an element of educating the masses. I think there's some value to that but we'll talk about that. So, we're not really wavering on waivers anymore. I think at this time we're sort of the view that it's of limited value, and it's not that easily enforceable, and probably doesn't quite fit in the condominium setting. So that's where we are at this stage. But did we talk about the signs? Right. I'm building on what you just identified, Denise, is so what else can we do? I've seen questions on the chat line about that. If we're not going to sign waivers what other precautions can we put in place to educate the masses, to better protect the community and to protect the corporation? So we're going to talk about that. I think I'm going to turn this to the condo twins, but we're going to talk about the development of various protocols, posting of various signs and we've spoke about that. We've shown the signs a couple of minutes ago. Also, potentially, implementing some kind of a health screening process. That's a bit more practically more difficult but there's a way to deal with that. So let me turn the microphone maybe to either, I'm not sure David, or if Graeme's going to tackle first the health screen questionnaire.

David: I can grab that one because we've dealt with this a little bit. This urgently we're dealing more with outsiders to the condo committee. So you have contractors coming in and we wanted to, in effect, protect the common elements from outsiders and then the question is "Now we're dealing with our own owners within our community. How do we apply the same sort of principal?" Again, with different legal liability results. It might not be the same thing for insiders as it is for outsiders. But one thing that we've used, and we based it off of some of the Health Canada questions, we've seen a lot of these used in different context. If you just have people sign off yes/no questions that are all of the typical symptoms or typical things that health authorities are looking for, and are asking you to flag for yourself anyway. Are you currently experiencing any of the COVID symptoms? Have you experienced any of them within the last 14 days which is the incubation period? Have you recently returned from international travel? Probably no one right now. Where you asked to self-isolate during the last 14 days? By yes and no's on these, again, the question of someone, if they check no but they really have a cough and they're just lying to you. Or they don't know necessarily that they had it at the time and they're sick. This is not necessarily a liability thing. Think of it as the communication, the marketing, the getting everyone on the same wavelength. To start thinking about the same issues, and have everyone kind of take a little bit of responsibility for themselves while they're standing there in a community context, where everyone has different responsibilities.

Rod: Right, right. Maybe a place where you could have that questionnaire, is if you're going to have some kind of scheduling sort of app of some kind, that could be integrated online. Where before being able to pick a timeframe, during which they want to use the gym, they'd have to click on these things. Who knows? Maybe if one of the answers is yes, maybe they never get to the booking page. I'm not sure. So it's a bit of a dissuasion rather than anything else. Not so much enforcement but dissuasion and educating people and reminding them that we're all in this together.

Graeme: But practical difficulties aside, taking steps like this and putting up signs and educating people, doing all that the condo can do within the confines of the Condominium Act, are all very good things. It goes back to our discussion of in good faith, trying to keep everyone safe, and if you do that it should leave you protected. We're going to, again, I have to see what comes of this in the future but these are all things to keep in mind in terms of can we say, with a straight face, that we've done all we can to protect everyone.

Rod: Right. That's exactly it.

Graeme: That's reasonably required in the circumstances.

Rod: That's exactly it. As opposed to doing nothing and just opening the doors wide open, right? Absolutely. It goes back here to the health protocol. Again, that's something that we were using at the time, mainly for contractors or visitors. But when you develop whatever protocol you put in place for owners to use your amenities, along the lines of what Sean was discussing a couple of minutes ago, you may want to put these reminders out there. People should practice social distancing and so on and so forth. So have signs. I think Jason has really drilled that into our minds. Signs, signs, signs. Everywhere a signs and document, document, document. That's our mantra. Okay. We have still a fair bit of time so maybe we are going to tackle this. At one point we thought we were going to park it. I hope Denise is still on the line.

Denise: Yeah, I'm still here. Don't worry.

Rod: Okay. Wonderful. I think now we're preparing for the longer run. In the last couple of weeks it was a bit of a marathon, sorry a sprint, but now we're entering into a marathon. I hate the expression the new normal, because it's not normal, but a new way of doing certain things. So it may be time to review some of your rules and to adapt them, long term, to this new reality in which we are in, in which we may be for quite a while. What kind of rules, Denise, do you think are ripe to be sort of tweaked and improved upon?

Denise: Yeah, I could tell you what we've been doing and just to mention, when you're looking at the rules, you're also looking at your policy and your bylaws. They're sort of inter-related. You know every condominium corporation is different and they have different provisions and different documents. So, don't forget about the bylaws. Don't forget about the declaration when doing this. What we are doing, a lot of, are the renovations. Owners are allowed to do their in suite renovations. If it affects the common elements then you're dealing with the Section 98 Agreement. We are modifying our standard Section 98 Agreement. If it's in suite renovations, usually they're dealt with in the declaration, and the rules. It will, besides the Section 98 Agreement, we're making revisions to those rules to deal with the protocol. We've been talking about all the protocols but those protocols are only protocols. They're like policies. You can't really enforce it unless you incorporate it into the rules. Putting provisions in the Section 98 Agreement which deals with how work will be scheduled, advising management who the trades are and how many trades are coming in and limiting the number of trades, if there's any changes to advise managers, elevator bookings. Then dealing with the contractors wearing protective masks and gloves. Those things can be incorporated into Section 98 Agreements or into rules. Now in terms of the other kinds of rules we're looking at, guest suites. Guest suites and party rooms. If you look at many of the rules that are out there, they do give flexibility in terms of boards changing policies, and that being incorporated into the rules. So again, you really need legal counsel to review the rules to see what they can do, in terms of incorporating these protocols. The guest suites and party rooms we know that they're going to have to go through extensive cleaning. So boards are considering raising their rental rates for the party rooms and for the guest suites and having owners pay for those costs. Then what else we've been looking at recently are the protocols for visitor registration. Many corporations have implemented these policies about who can visit and registering that, but again, it's not incorporated into the rules, so long term you need to look at those rules and have some kind of visitor registration system. That also ties in possibly to occupancy standards bylaws. Something to look at when you're looking at numbers of guests visiting, and the terms that they're staying in the unit, and whether that's considered additional occupancy under the occupancy standards bylaw.

Rod: Right, right, right.

Denise: I think I covered the main points. Oh, there was just one other interesting question we had the other day. We were looking at the general operating bylaw and changing the ability for directors to e-sign. So not have to sign agreements. That's something that we were looking at, changing the general operating bylaw, because we were making some other changes as well.

Rod: Right. Right. How do we deal with, maybe a quick reminder on how rules are adopted, and how bylaws are adopted. Because you've proposed changes to the rules, and there's a process to be followed, and of course there's a different process when we're dealing with bylaws. So maybe tackle one and I'll tackle the other one.

Denise: Well, rules are much easier to pass. Assuming that no one requisitions it. The board decides on what rules to do and then will circulate it to the owners. Provide notice to the owners and there'll be a copy of the section of the Condominium Act, section 46, attached to it. You wait 30 days and hopefully owners do not requisition a meeting and then the rules are in effect. Now, if an owner gathers support and you get your 15%25 and they requisition a meeting, you have to hold the meeting and you will probably be doing it virtually, because we're allowed to do that until the end of October right now. Then the owners will have to vote to approve the rule. Otherwise the rule will not pass.

Rod: Right. That was our concern initially. I remember when this all started in mid-March. We were sort of telling people don't change your rules. Don't touch your rules. The concern we had at the time was that it may result in a requisition meeting and, especially initially, we didn't really know how that would unfold and so on and so forth. But as you just said, Denise, we can now, even without a bylaw, hold these meetings virtually. So if someone was to requisition a meeting to vote on the rules then you could hold the meeting virtually.

Denise: Yeah, but there's something to keep in mind when you're doing that because of electronic voting, that will give the owners the ability to vote against the rules, right? So, now your chances that the rule will pass are not that great, now that you're allowing owners to have more say and it's more accessible through the electronic vote.

Rod: Well, that's interesting.

Denise: More power to the owners.

Rod: Right, right. That's interesting because you think that by facilitating the exercise you may get more naysayers but you may also get more positive answers. No?

Denise: I was talking about the other way around. Right?

Rod: Yeah.

Denise: They're going to vote against the rule.

Rod: Right.

Denise: Or they don't want the rule. Yup.

Rod: It'd be an interesting stats later on to have a look at because I'm thinking that the naysayers, in any event, would have shown up in person. I'm wondering if you wouldn't, maybe electronic voting allows more people to actually cast even a positive vote, because it's so easy to do.

Denise: Sure. We should find out. I guess people who are viewing tonight should let us know if they have a requisition meeting and how it wall works with the electronic voting.

Rod: Right. Absolutely. Yesterday at my own condo we had our very first virtual meeting and it went very well. In fact attendance was an all time record. I think we had 80%25 of the units in attendance. This had never happened. We also passed two bylaws. It's easier, electronically, it was a great success. Now, with respect to bylaws, I'll tackle that one. So Denise covered how to adopt rules, how to adopt bylaws, because Denise spoke of a few bylaws that maybe you want to have a look and amend. A bylaw is a bit more difficult to pass. There's two kinds of bylaws out there. So let's deal with the traditional one. You need to circulate it to the owners. You need to call a meeting. So the corporation has to call a meeting. You can't just wait to see whether the owners will challenge it. So you call a meeting of owners. You send the 35 day notice, which is the preliminary notice, then you send the 15 day notice and then you call a meeting of owners, virtually or in person eventually, and you actually have to put the question to a vote of the owners and you require 50%25 of all units, at least 50%25. You require a majority, which is at least 50%25 of all units, to vote in favour of it for the bylaw to pass. Otherwise it doesn't pass. Now, I did say there were two kinds of bylaws. So this, what I just spoke about, was the traditional one. Yesterday, at my condo, we amended our standard unit bylaw. We went from an older model, we had to, one where there's a lot less risk for the corporation. But the second bylaw we passed is the electronic voting and electronic meeting bylaw. That one's easier to pass because that one only requires a reduced majority. It's really the majority of those who vote. It's closer to the level of support you require for a rule. It was easier to pass, obviously, because first it was less controversial, but also because we didn't have to go get 50%25 of all the units, we only needed 50%25 of those who showed up. Now, 80%25 of them showed up yesterday. I think everybody wanted to see what it would feel like to do a virtual meeting. Something else we spoke about, Denise, is whether there'd be a way to adopt a rule that allows the flexibility to adopting changing policies. Policies obviously are not enforceable, and certainly not to the same extent as a rule, and so right now if we develop a rule that's really COVID driven, COVID related, maybe later on there's going to be a different flavour to the next virus. I don't hope it but maybe. So what about that? Would we be able to adopt a rule that enforces a policy to be adopted from time to time by the corporation?

Denise: Yeah, no, for sure we can and we do that now. I mean we have all sorts of policies that we incorporate into the rules. We tie the policy into the rules. Like harassment rules. That's done by way of a policy. So definitely we can do that. I just wanted to go back. Can I go back to your bylaws because something very interesting with the whole electronic voting process. You could, technically, start the vote on your bylaws because you know you need your majority plus your one unit, at the stage of the preliminary notice change. You can circulate your bylaws and start the voting then. You could have 35 days for owners to start voting on that bylaw. Sometimes it's done at the time of notice, so 2 weeks out, but just to keep that in mind if you want to do these bylaws, starting the vote earlier.

Rod: Right. Right. Absolutely. Somebody asked a question out there, "How do we know which one of the bylaws requires 50%25 of all owners versus those that require 50%25 of those voting?" That's in the regulation. So in the regulation it specifically lists those reduced majority bylaws and e-voting, e-meetings are one of them. I'm not sure what others there are. I'm sure there are some more but those are the ones that come to mind right now. So it's in the regulation. It doesn't change, really. The corporation can't say, "This one we're going to adopt it this way or that way." It's really set by the Condo Act and regulation. Okay, so that's for that. Did you cover how to deal with owners working from home and how we have more owners? I may have missed that. You may have covered it.

Denise: No. I didn't cover it. I mean, how are we going to deal with it? I don't think we know yet because if owners are working from home that's probably okay. But what happens if they decide to close up their office and now run their office out of their condo units and now it's commercial use? Is it commercial use or is it still residential use? It's not a live/work unit so it may be contrary to zoning. So what are corporations going to do? I mean I'm posing these questions because I don't know the answer.

Rod: Right, right, right.

Denise: But we're thinking about it. Yup.

Rod: Can one of our managers, I wonder are we encountering maybe more people working from home, and is that causing any issues? Maybe more usage or more nuisance? Katherine, any thoughts on that?

Katherine: My short answer for present is that the majority of people are working from home but I think that's different in large part from operating a business from home. Typically, as a condominium manager, the only way that you would know or understand that there was somebody operating a business from home, in violation of your governing documentation, was based on foot traffic or advertising. So right now, for instance, I am very frequently taking calls in this beautiful spare bedroom you see here. But I also don't think that poses any difficulty, any concern for a condominium corporation. Folks have telecommuted for a long period of time. I think the things that we would have concern over have been violations before COVID, and they will crop up perhaps more frequently, but it's somebody who's using their condominium as a storage facility for their multi-mail business operations or something of that nature. Where the risk of the business is engendering foot traffic, is opening up to new or special or different risks. But that would require some more time and thought to see if there was a special risk that we think is going to come about now.

Rod: Right, right, right. So, David, at the beginning we forgot to give our education announcement for the chat room. People, I know we're 45 minutes in, but make sure that when you chat you select all panelists and all attendees, otherwise we're the only ones to see it and the rest of you don't get to benefit from the party line. Okay. Yes, when you're dealing with work from home and commercial versus residential and work/live unit, you need to absolutely have a look at your declaration. That's the starting point. Right? If it doesn't allow it, it doesn't allow it. I've seen the chat room, some people are raising the fact that everybody being at home it may actually create more garbage, and maybe more water usage, and maybe that is resulting in additional strain on the corporation. Sean, any comments on that? Are we experiencing this in Ottawa?

Sean: Certainly we've seen increases in garbage. Water consumption, seen a little bit, it wouldn't be noticeable from what I've seen. But echoing Katherine's comments about the working from home and business use, we certainly have seen more people working from home as well. Just not bringing in visitors or clients. It's strictly virtual work.

Rod: Graeme, I see questions on both chat and in the questions about how long will this period during which we can hold virtual meetings without a bylaw? Right now we can hold a virtual meeting without a bylaw until?

Graeme: Until the emergency is over plus 90 days.

Denise: So, that's until end of October right now.

Graeme: Yeah. Yeah, based on the current date that we have for the end of the emergency, until the end of October, yes. I mean, that may move forward again as it has, I think 3 or 4 times now, but as of now that's the date, yeah.

Rod: Right. So until the end of October. Okay. So that answers a few of the questions out there. Jason, I haven't forgotten about you. Let's make sure that we don't run out of time this time. Again, folks, Jason has put together a wonderful form and he's sharing it with you. So far, not only does he not put his logo on it, but this time he's actually telling you, "Here's where you could get put your logo." This guy, it's just like Christmas. Every time with you, Jason, it's Christmas. So let me bring on the screen this form. Do we see it folks?

Jason: Yes.

Rod: Yes. Okay, wonderful. So, walk us through that form. What brought that form to the forefront? What's behind it and how do we use it?

Jason: So, I can't take credit for it. This was released by the Provincial government, the government of Ontario, yesterday. I've just modified it so that it can be applicable for the condo environment and be used as a tool to communicate to residents, employees and service providers, everybody in your building. In fact, once you fill this out I would suggest that you're meeting the guidelines, the only published guidelines by the Province of Ontario. Let me walk you back for 30 seconds. The fire code gives us a guideline or a scope of work to complete and be compliant to protect us from liability. So the absence of a guideline, or a standard, workplaces or just condominiums, are left to reach out to professionals, join associations, join applicable calls like this with Condo Advisor, and keep abreast of the best practices. In the absence of any legislation, all of a sudden the Provincial government comes out and publishes this guide. Well, the guide's only six to seven questions long. So let me summarize it real simply. You can put your condo corporations number or logo here, or your property management's company, and quite simply this is something that you fill out that is only three pages long and you put it up in your elevator lobbies, you put it at your front entrance, you put it at the entrance to your amenities so that you can actually be totally transparent and form the documentation that meets the guidelines by the Province of Ontario. So quite simply, enter business name, building information. How are we ensuring workers know how to keep themselves safe from the exposure to COVID-19 in our condo? That's where you document what you're doing so that you can be transparent to all workers, all residents and everybody who may enter your building. In fact, the guideline even suggests post this throughout your workplace. So let's scroll down. The next question, and there's only five of them, how are we screening for COVID-19? Now, whether your condominium decides to screen visitors, I don't think that is necessary but I think what you must do, according to the workplace guideline is, you must screen your employees before they come into the workplace. So as an example, your security guards should be filling out that form, or filling it out somewhere, or the security guard company should be checking this before they come in your building every morning. Your super should be filling that little 30 second checklist out every morning. Then there's a couple more questions. Here's how we're controlling the risk of transmission in our workplace, the condominium. We're doing physical distancing and separations. Here's how we're tackling cleaning. Here's how we're tackling amenities. If you go to the third page, which I believe sums up the last three questions, how are we managing new risks in our building and how are we making sure our plan is working? So that's where you can actually put in, "Hey, we're spot checking documentation every 4 hours. Hey, we're following up to make sure that the quizzes for the employees and the screening is being done. We're doing random spot checks. We're doing random spot checks in the amenities. The stronger you can make this three page document and post it in your building, you're being (A) very transparent; number two, meeting the guidelines issued just yesterday by the Province of Ontario to have a safety plan for your workplace; and number three, you've created the documentation we've been talking about for the last 6 to 8 weeks.

Rod: Okay. Look at that. And another gift from Jason. There it is. Okay, what else? Where are we now?

Graeme: I'm just going to jump in because I caused some chaos there.

Rod: Graeme, it's confession. Come to confession.

Graeme: I did miss count. I was correct with the date but it's 120 days under Bill-190. We're given 120 days after the emergency ends to hold virtual meetings. Not 90. So it does bring us to the end of October, like I said, but for those of you who were trying to do the math and make it work and seeing that you're not, you didn't take crazy pills. I did. It's 120. Sorry for the chaos.

Denise: Yeah, but you know what, Graeme? That deals with the extension of your AGM. So that 90 day period is important.

Graeme: Yeah. But, the in general you can hold virtual meetings, that's 120. So there you go.

Rod: Exactly. You're both right and there it is. That's why they pay us the big bucks is because it's not simple. Right? So you can delay your AGM up to 90 days after the end of the emergency period, but you will be able to hold a virtual AGM for 120 days which brings us to October, and that addressed the transition period because we thought what's going to happen if you call your AGM, and then it just happens that you can no longer hold them virtually. So there's a bit of a buffer zone. I'm actually not sure I clarified anything. I think I just muddied it a bit more. So there it is. A gift from me to you.

Katherine: Use the fancy calculator available from the Gowling's website.

Rod: Right. We're working on that.

<laughter>

Rod: Did we talk about the safety plan, Jason? What's that? You know what? What is that? I think it's the leftovers from a prior meal here.

Jason: This is the safety plan that Ontario has just published yesterday for all workplaces to follow. That's that document there that if you can share, feel free to use it, and everybody can use the exact same thing. I think it's important that right in the Provincial guideline it says, "You should be posting this so that everybody in your building, (A) can see the work you're doing; and (B) understand what you're not doing.

Rod: Right. Okay. Well, there it is. I don't know if we have any time for any questions, so maybe Graeme and Super Dave, have a look at the question line before we sort of sign off. But in the meantime, and do jump in if there is something. Somebody keeps asking me, "What about the barbeques? What about the barbeques? Can we open the barbeques?" So what about the barbeques? Anybody wants to tackle that? We know that in Ontario, outside patios are being opened. Right? It doesn't mean that you have to open yours? It just means that there seems to be an indication that it's being relaxed a bit. So at the end of the day each corporation has to look at its own setting its own space, its own demographics. Really look at your specific situation and ask yourself, "Are we prepared to take on this additional risk? Do we have the resources to monitor this? To clean this?" So there isn't a one size fit all, unfortunately. But there it is. So that's, again, it depends answer that you love to get from lawyers. Okay. I want to make sure we sort of finish for 6 o'clock. This would be the first time that we manage to squeeze it all in so that's pretty good. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go around the table again. I'm going to thank my panelists. I'm going to ask them if they have anything to add before we sign off and then we'll do our little spiel about next week. Going around the table, in alphabetical order, Sean Cornish. Some advice for this week, Sean, until next week?

Sean: Rod, similar to previous advice, it's about risk mitigation and you're either mitigating the risk by having proper cleaning and disinfecting procedures in place when you re-open an amenity, or you're keeping the amenity closed. I think those are the choices, ultimately.

Rod: Okay. Katherine Gow from Crossbridge, any advice for this week?

Katherine: As always, keep calm, wash your hands, sanitize your cell phone. I'm making mention of it again because as we re-open a lot of the risks haven't evaporated. They haven't disappeared. Right? So we were perhaps a little bit more patient with doing all those things before. I want you to remind all of your people that that same advice about considering that doorknob to have last been sneezed on by somebody who is COVID positive to still apply and to still use a great deal of caution as you're travelling through the common elements.

Rod: Okay. Wonderful. From Lash Condo law, our classic that never disappoints, Denise Lash. Any sort of advice for this week until we speak again next week?

Denise: Well, I think as we discussed now is the time to look at rules and bylaws. Remember that the rules are going to take 30 days to circulate and you want to make sure you have those protocols implemented into your rules, incorporated into your rules. The other thing is your bylaws. If you're going to amend those bylaws you're going to have to present it at a meeting. So you may want to start the process now, and then put those bylaws on the agenda for your AGM, and then hold it virtually.

Rod: Okay. Very good. Jason Reid, of the National Life Safety Group, what gifts are you preparing for us for this week?

Jason: For next week I'm excited. We'll take a look at enforcement options and unruly people that are banned from the amenities.

Rod: Okay. Wonderful. Now onto my two condo twins. Graeme MacPherson, of Gowling WLG, advice for this week?

Graeme: Advice for this week is before you say a number out loud just do the math twice in your head. But I guess my parting word of wisdom will just be, we're seeing a lot of openings happening, and that is in no small part due to the hard work of everyone in Ontario who has been social isolating and taking the steps to make sure that everyone is safe. Not everywhere it is Stage 2 yet but we are getting there and we're hopefully heading in the right direction. So just keep up the good work.

Rod: Okay. And before I turn to you, David, somebody asked a question about insurance. I'm not sure where the insurance industry is going but I've actually seen some insurers, at the renewal stage, expressly excluding any COVID related damage. Something to keep on eye out that the insurance may not come to your rescue if something goes wrong. We should all be careful when considering what to re-open and what precautions to put in place. David Plotkin, of Gowling WLG, advice for this week?

David: Sure. The reason there is two members of the condo twins, when Graeme screws up I send him frantic messages during the webinar. When I screw up he sends me frantic text messages in the webinar and we always end up in the right place at the end. My point of this rambling rant that I'm doing is rely on your social circles, rely on your professional circles, follow the government advice that allows you to expand those things in person, but also keep relying on the resources you've always been relying on so far. Take the advice when needed. I know all of the professionals have been working really hard to adapt their practices to the new realities and thank you for continuing to trust in us and work with us on your questions.

Rod: Wonderful. Couldn't have said it better myself. Next week, folks, the final episode. We're going to come up with something fantastic. A cliffhanger of some kind. We're going to hide Graeme somewhere and it's going to be like where in Ontario is Waldo, or something to that effect. I'm not sure.

Graeme: I'll wear my striped shirt.

Sean: Nice. June 24^th at 5:00pm, same channel. You need to register through the Condo Advisor. You know the drill. You need to go to the top corner, click on webinar and then it brings you to the form. Give us ideas. Give us suggestions. I'm running low on suggestions on what to cover? What is on your mind? So make sure that you take this opportunity to get on the agenda, basically. Folks, that's about it. That's it for our 14^th episode. I wish everybody out there, this coming weekend, Happy Father's Day to everybody. To all the fathers out there, especially mine. Thank you very much.