Diversifying into the Middle East market: Practical considerations

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Welcome, everyone, to the second of our webinar series, diversifying into the Middle East market. My name is Ruba El-Sayegh. I am a partner here at Gowling WLG and co-lead of the firm's Arab States initiative. I am also vice chair of the Canada Arab Business Council, Canada's only not-for-profit association focused on promoting trade and investment between Canada and the Arab world.

I have the privilege to moderate today's panel, but before I introduce our esteemed panelists, I have a few housekeeping notes. First, today's session will be recorded and will be shared after the event. If we have time at the end, we'll invite you to post your questions in the chat, although I suspect we'll go straight to the hour. And also to help us improve on future sessions, we would love to get your feedback, and we would ask you to respond to the survey, which will be accessible via the QR code on the screen as well as linked in the chat at the end.

So at this time, I'd like to introduce our esteemed panelists. First, we have Ambassador Ahmed Hafez, who is the Egyptian ambassador to Canada. He is a career diplomat who has been in the Egyptian diplomatic service for 23 years, working at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs headquarters, as well as abroad. Most recently, for the past four years until September 2022, he had assumed the position of the official spokesperson of the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and head of the Public Diplomacy Department. He has previously worked in the political section of the embassy of Egypt to the United States of America. And before that, he had also been assigned to the Egyptian embassy in Israel.

Next, we have Her Excellency Sabah Nizar Al Rafie, who is the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to Canada, a position she has held since 2023. Her Excellency joined the Jordanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates in 1999. Over the years, she has held several senior positions, including spokesperson for the ministry, deputy consul general at the Consulate General of Jordan in Jeddah, and deputy chief of mission at the embassy of Jordan to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Her Excellency also served at the embassy of Jordan in Vienna. She was appointed director of the Administrative Development Unit at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs before her current assignment in Canada.

We also have Jan De Silva, who is a board member of the Canada Arab Business Council. She is also co-chair of the Canada-ASEAN Business Council, Canada's representative to APEC Business Advisory Council, as well as a corporate director and former president and CEO of the Toronto Region Board of Trade. As an extension of her work at the Board of Trade, Jan remains highly engaged in energy transition and digital transformation. She leads CABC's Nuclear Energy Working Group, a coalition of Canada's nuclear energy stakeholders focused on capacity building, trade, and economic development. She chairs ABAC's artificial intelligence and digital innovation working group, providing guidance to APEC leaders on digital developments.

We also have Sean Cornelissen, who is the deputy director, Gulf Commerce at Global Affairs Canada. Prior to this role, Sean held positions in a breadth of areas in Canada's Foreign Affairs Ministry pertaining to both foreign policy and promotion of Canadian businesses. Most recently, Sean was a senior advisor in the Office of the Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, where he covered the Middle East, Africa, export controls, and sanctions.

And finally, we have Bachir Chakra, who is a Gowling WLG partner based in Riyadh. Has over 17 years of regional and international legal experience in IP, technology, corporate commercial matters, procurement, and media. He is proficient in both common and civil law and has a strong record of providing practical legal advice, having previously worked at top law firms and in-house roles in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, and Canada. Bachir brings with him a deep understanding of the regional and international legal landscapes. So welcome to you all, and thank you so much for your time and being with us today.

Now our webinar, of course, is called "Diversifying into the Middle East." But of course, the Middle East is a vast region with many differences between the countries in terms of the resources and economic agendas and priorities. And given that we have less than an hour for this webinar, it's not possible to include representatives from all the countries. But we hope this discussion will still provide you with some insight into the MENA region. And we are always an email or a phone call away if any of you would like us to connect you with the right people in the jurisdictions of interest to you.

So I'd first like to start with providing a brief overview of the Canadian-MENA trade relationship. The MENA region is one of Canada's most important trading partners. According to Global Affairs Canada, bilateral trade between Canada and MENA in 2021 was 12.5 billion, an increase of almost 15% from the year prior. In 2022, following the normalization of relations between Canada and KSA after a five-year freeze, Saudi became Canada's most significant two-way trading partner in the region and 23rd globally, with trade being approximately 5.1 billion.

In 2021, Canada's Minister of Trade, Mary Ng, released a statement that expanding trade and investment with MENA is a priority for Canada and it is crucial for post-pandemic economic recovery efforts, and now, certainly, in the current tariff climate. In 2022, Minister Ng led a trade delegation of Canadian delegates to the UAE during the World Expo, which I had participated in to show Canada's commitment to diversifying its trade partnerships.

But there's more work to do, not only with the GCC countries, where they have developed the infrastructure and have provided significant investment support into key trade sectors, but also with the other MENA countries that have the know-how, a highly educated workforce, and significant industries that other countries, including European nations, have long tapped into, but which Canada has not to a significant degree given its reliance on free trade with the US. But with the global shift in attitude, now is a ripe opportunity to solidify these partnerships. And there are many recent examples of the region's sincere and eager efforts to partner with Canada, which we will also hear about.

In the last year, for example, Saudi sent five of its top ministers to Canada to explore business opportunities. The emir of Qatar had his first visit to Canada in September 2024. In November, Saudi's National Council for Public-Private Partnerships, NCP, and its public investment fund sent delegations to Toronto ahead of the CCPPP conference. Six MENA countries sent delegations to the PDAC mining conference in Toronto last month. And aside from these high-level visits, next month alone, there is an incoming trade delegation to Canada from Egypt in various sectors, which I'm sure His Excellency will speak about.

Tunisia has a high-level trade mission coming in early April, focused on their significant textile industry. Last month, Jordan held an ICT webinar in partnership with CABC led by Jordan's Minister of Digital Economy and Entrepreneurship. So, I mean, those are just some of the examples, but I will stop there. And I would like to turn it over now to our panelists who we are all here hoping to hear from.

Very pleased to see that we have a good turnout. And just to let you all know, we have divided today's seminar into three main topics. The first will be on market accessibility to MENA. The second will be on trade barriers or perceived trade barriers, if you will. And the third topic will be on market entry strategies and the importance of local presence.

So starting with why the Middle East, we would like to hear our panelists' perspectives on the synergies that naturally exist between Canada and MENA, as well as accessibility to the region in key sectors. And Jan, if I may, I'd like to start with you. What are some of the advantages or benefits to Canadian businesses wishing to operate in MENA and vice versa?

JAN DE SILVA: Ruba, Thanks so much. I'm delighted to join this powerhouse panel today. I know I'm going to learn a lot from them as well. As you indicated, Ruba, MENA is a high-growth region with geostrategic importance. Many Canadian sectors offer key value propositions aligned to the region's need and can compete with the world's best. The key for us is to be engaged. If I think about our new economy sectors-- AI, cyber, digital-- and related to this, powering the digital economy through our nuclear energy capabilities and data center innovations, Canada ranks as the fifth-largest data center hub globally, so lots we can bring to the table.

Critical minerals and EVs all sit in this new economy space. There's so much that we have to offer with transferable technologies and co-investment and scaling of innovation into the region. And then there's our traditional powerhouse sectors that are also in high demand-- aerospace, infrastructure development, egg and seafood, higher education, and health and mining. For MENA companies, Canada offers partnerships, transferable capacity building in new economy and workforce development areas. Look, I'm going to pause here, Ruba, and simply say opportunities are tremendous. If we pick our spots, pick our sectors, and lean in not just on a single trade mission, but on a multiyear engagement plan.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you, Jan. Thanks very much. Appreciate that insight into the powerhouse sectors where natural synergies lie. Sean, we know the Gulf states have made significant strides in diversifying their economies away from traditional oil and gas sector. Why are they doing this, and why does it matter?

SEAN CORNELISSEN: Thanks for the question, Ruba, and thanks very much for the invitation. I'm really glad that you guys are doing this. From what we are seeing in our embassies in the Gulf region, not that the Gulf region needs that much promotion. They are completely inundated with Canadian companies that are going there right now, trying to seek out new business opportunities. But this is very much a welcome panel.

So yes, indeed, the countries in the Gulf-- and when I say "the Gulf," what I'm referring to is mostly Saudi Arabia and the UAE and Qatar because of the size of their economies. We also work on my team with Kuwait, Bahrain, and Ahman. But all of these countries, all six of them, have some version of a vision 2030 sometimes. Sometimes it's a vision 2035 or 2040. But what this means is it's a medium-term economic vision for those countries to diversify out of oil and gas and into new economic sectors.

So normally, when we think of these countries-- Saudi Arabia, UAE-- we think, oh, oil and gas, that's basically what they do-- is export oil and gas. Going forward, when you think about these countries, think about anything but oil and gas, because that's what they want to do. And that's where their money is going to be headed. The reason for this is because they know that oil and gas, at some point in the future-- we can debate whether it's going to be 5 years, 10 years, 40 years-- but at some point in the future, oil and gas will not be as relevant as it is today or as it has been for the last 40 years. And the governments in the Gulf countries are very conscious of this, and they want to maintain their economic prosperity. So they're using their profits from the oil and gas sector now to get into those new sectors.

What this means for Canadian companies, of course, is that there's massive opportunities to receive investment from if they are working in those new sectors, but also massive trade opportunities because all the Gulf countries are trying to build capacity for themselves on the ground. The Gulf countries are motivated to work with everyone and definitely motivated to work with Canada. The numbers that you cited, Ruba, of the five economic-focused ministers from Saudi Arabia is a very good testament to that. They're spending their time and money to come here and to work with us. I'm happy to speak about the sectors a little bit more, if that's of interest.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Yeah, that would be great, Sean, if you can.

SEAN CORNELISSEN: Sure. So when you think about which sectors Canadian companies will be most effective in the Gulf countries, again, it's really important to go back to these visions, and they have very useful websites-- Vision 2030, Vision 2035-- for each of the countries. The reason why this is important is because these countries take these medium-term economic strategies very seriously, and we believe that they are going to do everything they can to execute these so they can be read to the T.

So when we take a look at those and when we line them up with Canadian capacity, some of the obvious places that stand out is, first, agriculture and agri-food. If you look at what they want to do with tourism and becoming a huge tourist hub, as well as the food insecurity that Gulf countries have as a result of being based in the desert without much fresh water, there's massive opportunities for Canadian agriculture and agri-food. The UAE is also a hub where that receives a lot of raw agricultural goods, packages them, processes them, and then ships them on to Africa and other places. So lots of opportunity there.

We just got the market opened up for Canadian lobster and beef in Saudi Arabia. With regard to mining and mineral processing-- and the mineral processing part is particularly interesting given that mineral processing currently is quite bottlenecked in one or two countries, depending on the mineral-- there's a lot of opportunities in this area as well. The countries in the Gulf want-- the reason for this is because they want to be able to have access to the critical minerals that they need to feed their industries, as does everybody, but they are looking to make investments now. Again, I think maybe later on, I'll give some examples of some of those investments that have happened recently and Canadian companies that have benefited from them.

And just for the sake of time, I'll just mention one more industry, which is medical services, research, health, wealth, life sciences. So both Saudi Arabia and the UAE have made it very obvious that Canadian medical schools are their preferred medical schools. We educate a massive amount of doctors from each of those countries. They then go back to their countries. And they not only become doctors, but they become decision-makers in the healthcare industry.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: As Sean works to get back online, hopefully, I'll just echo Sean's thoughts in terms of the Middle Eastern economies diversifying beyond oil and investing heavily in medical services, life sciences, mining, agtech, clean energy, and not to mention the digital transformation. So the opportunity for Canada to play a larger role in the region has never been greater. Turning now to the ambassador of Egypt, His Excellency Mr. Hafez, how do you see the MENA market as a natural fit for Canadian businesses and vice versa? Would you say the sectors that Sean identified as, let's say, the five biggest trends for Canadians doing business in MENA is consistent across the region?

AHMED HAFEZ: Well, not necessarily, but I think what is common-- and I think this goes across all the way from the Maghreb countries, all the way to the Gulf countries passing through, of course, the Levant, North Africa, and Egypt-- what's common for all is that we have seen, beyond even relationship with Canada, that these countries, the Arab world, during the past recent decades, they've evolved exponentially in strides. And they've evolved away from traditional sectors, and they've also evolved in terms of having partners-- partners who came from also remotely, who decided to actually leave their comfort zone very early on.

And think of the Arab world. So, yes, I think what he said about the GCC is accurate from the perspective of the GCC. And as well, there are other domains and sectors that I think our countries in, let's say, the Levant, as well as North Africa, are focused as well on, building modern platforms for businesses and industry and services, investing in our human resources-- basically, new dimensions for our outlook. So it is not anymore oil and gas, maybe for the GCC. It's not anymore just agricultural produce, for a country like Egypt. It is not just that.

There are many areas-- for example, in Egypt-- that we have identified that has to do with energy renewables. We're very upbeat on that-- energy hydrogen, green hydrogen, renewables and clean energy, the agribusiness and the food produce, technology innovation, education, food industries, textiles, of course, car assembly and manufacturing, and the services industry. So these are very much untapped potential. But I have to be also very honest and frank here-- they are untapped potential, not by the rest of the world, but they are untapped by Canada for the reasons that you've mentioned and other of your distinguished speakers.

And as such, of course, the keyword now everybody is talking about in Canada is "trade diversification," I want to also explain to the audience that what we hear when we hear the word "trade diversification," it's not really just diversification in trade. It is also diversification in investment as well as a diversification of thinking because this is very important. To have an open agile business, a business mentality that actually wants to move out of the comfort zone, this is something.

Now there is nothing wrong whatsoever to actually be doing and focusing business on your neighbor, with your neighbors-- the US-- this is absolutely understandable. But at the same time, the level of risk aversion that we have been seeing in Canada for so many years in terms of opening up to other markets is something that I think is a function of a deficit in knowledge, fear of moving out of the comfort zone, limited networks, and maybe even fear of regional geopolitical dynamics in our region. But as you can see with the Asian partners in the Arab world, what they've done, what the European partners have been also doing in terms of partnership, this all is a testament to what this region has in terms of potential. And we need to basically create more bridges for potential opportunities.

Of course, countries like Egypt, for example, it can't just sit and wait for people to realize that, yes, OK, the Europeans are doing business with Egypt, so let's go and do in Egypt. We actually have to move and extend our hands to you and see what we can do. And in fact, we've been doing operational steps from our side. Most recently, we're going to have-- next month-- an upcoming, not just business delegation, but it's a hybrid business delegation supported by an senior official delegation that also includes official investment arms of Egypt. This together to showcase to Canada's business community and others how serious we are in terms of showing what we've got in terms of incentives and facilitations.

So we've got people coming from the Authority for the Suez Canal Economic Zone. We have from the General Authority on Investments. We have somebody coming from the Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources. Plus, a line-up of Egyptian businessmen who are coming and ready to do work. And they're coming for four days, spanning across Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

So I'll stop here. But I would like just to share with your audience that, if anyone is interested in any of these events that we are having for the Egyptian businessmen, don't hesitate to reach out to us at egypt4931@rogers.com. And I repeat this-- it's egypt4931@rogers.com. And if they send me an email, I'll make sure that we send them invitations to all the activities and events that we're having across these four days.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: That's excellent. Thank you so much, your Excellency, for those comments and for that invitation. You spoke about how you see Canada, from the outside looking in mainly. I'd like to now turn to your Excellency, Ambassador Al Rafie, what are some of your thoughts about the importance of further strengthening trade between Canada and MENA? And what's attractive about the MENA market for Canadian companies?

SABAH AL RAFIE: Thank you, Ruba. I would like to thank as well the organizers and the participants for giving us this opportunity to discuss and share our observations and thoughts on the trade relationships between MENA and Canada. As my colleague, Ambassador Hafez and fellow panelists explained, Canada finds itself at a crossroad with partnerships disrupted and unreliable traditional markets. So the businesses are seeking for alternative market, and this is where MENA comes.

To explain the situation now, Canada has already an FTA with Jordan-- the only Arab country that has an FTA with Canada. This gives access to $50 trillion markets worldwide. It gives 1.4 billion consumers through free-trade agreements, amongst them the Pan-Arab Free Trade Area of 17 countries, that amounts to 400 million people, 39 double-taxation treaties, 49 bilateral investment treaties. Canada has foreign investment promotion agreements with four countries, namely Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, and Lebanon. These agreements they provide Canadian businesses with enhanced investment security and regulatory transparency.

The MENA region ensures supply chain stability for Canadian exporters and importers. The MENA region, of course, is a hub for and houses important trade corridors like the Suez Canal, the Strait of Hormuz. So as Sean elaborated and the panelists, MENA economies are diversifying beyond oil into agriculture, clean energy, digital transformation. This creates opportunities for Canadian companies and entities to play a larger role in the region.

Canadian companies with expertise in R&D, engineering, AI have opportunities. For instance, in Jordan, we are seeking investments in renewable energy, wind and solar, and partnerships in ICT infrastructure of mining. In addition, on the commerce front, MENA is one of the largest importers of agrifood and seafood products, with an annual import totaling around $200 billion Canadian dollars.

Canada has steadily increased its market share, with exports growing at an annual rate of 7.1%. So the region offers a significant opportunity for key sectors like special crops, grains, and, of course, seafood. Other important areas of cooperation that were spoken about are in educational and vocational training, where MENA countries are seeking to develop their educational institutions. To sum it up, MENA is a fertile ground for Canadian expertise and solutions and presents significant opportunities for Canadian businesses.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate your comments. Bachir, turning to you, given your cross-border practice in Dubai, Riyadh, and Canada, you see Canadian and other foreign companies enter the Saudi and Emirati markets frequently. How accessible is it from a business and from a legal perspective?

BACHIR CHAKRA: Thank you, Ruba. Ruba, and just echoing the excellency's comments, thank you for the organizers, the participants, and all the attendees today. It's a great honor and privilege to be here. In response to your question, I'd say the markets are quite accessible. So in their drive to achieve the plans set in place, such as vision 2030 and 2035, which Sean already mentioned, diversifying their economies and encouraging foreign ownership and investment-- and the powerhouse sector is also mentioned-- most countries in the region have really revamped and modernized their legal regimes and environments for doing and regulating businesses in the past decade.

Those countries, such as the GCC countries primarily, but also some noteworthy MENA countries, have taken steps to significantly cut down and, in many cases, eliminate the amount of red tape that is involved in setting up businesses in various sectors and fields of the economy. For instance, jurisdictions across the GCC have digitized many of their government-related services such that, concluding certain government regulatory steps related to business setups can be done, quite honestly, practically from your smartphones.

Also, in addition to expanding mining operations, which the panelists have already mentioned, the countries in the region are seeking to develop their knowledge economies, which have also been mentioned, but which also primarily are known to be areas where Canadian businesses have historically thrived in, given their level of expertise and know-how, and their ability to transfer technologies to businesses in the region. For instance, the KSA and UAE have encouraged and actively sought foreign investments and partnerships in many projects which focus on the development of AI technologies and on the construction of data centers, which is becoming quite the theme now.

However, having said all of that, I'd also add that, while most countries in the region have modernized their laws and legal regimes in accordance with international best practices, the legal setup of a business in one jurisdiction compared to the other-- because they are different countries-- can be somewhat nuanced. That should be a key consideration for businesses looking to enter the MENA markets. And I'll leave it at there.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Yeah, actually, that's a really good segue, Bachir, to our next broad topic, which is on barriers-- trade barriers, perceived barriers. You've just mentioned the nuanced aspects of the different legal jurisdictions. Jan, if I may, I'd like to turn to you because you spoke about the advantages of doing business in the Middle East. What would you say are some of the practical challenges or obstacles to Canadian companies doing business in the region?

JAN DE SILVA: Thanks, Ruba. Look, I would say the obvious challenges and obstacles are proximity and familiarity. Unlike a market like the US that's at our border and where many Canadians have regularly visited, MENA region can feel far away and therefore unfamiliar. And while we have tremendous Canadian support available through EDC, CCC-- I know we love letters-- TCS, Trade Commissioner Services, Canada Arab Business Council, and amazing firms like Gowlings, the challenge for many Canadian companies, whether in MENA or other export regions, is that a one-by-one company approach to a new market is daunting, time-consuming, and therefore complex.

Determining which markets are right for your business and sector, how to get started, how to engage-- this goes well beyond participating in a single trade mission. It takes investment of executive time and resources. Some of the strongest success stories I've seen have been where we activate a strong supply chain or sector approach to market access, rather than a one-by-one company approach. I'm going to stop there because I know you've asked me to double-click on that in the next segment, but I would agree with their excellencies-- we're really at a point in the road around market diversification. And so getting over and recognizing these obstacles and hurdles is really important for us to take those next steps in trade diversification.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you, Jan. You mentioned the Trade Commissioner Service. And Sean, turning to you, is global affairs taking any steps to overcome some of these challenges? What are some of the ways the Trade Commissioner Service can help Canadian business given the current tariff climate?

SEAN CORNELISSEN: Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with Jan in terms of why doing business in the MENA region-- if you've only ever done business with the United States or maybe with Europe before, can seem a little daunting. And what I might add to that list is the importance of personal connections and knowing exactly who to connect with when you're doing business in the Gulf region, probably all of the Middle East, but certainly in the Gulf.

Even if your company has the best product at the cheapest price or whatever it may be, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be getting the business if you are not able to create those personal connections and make sure that your interlocutor feels respected. This is common in, obviously, many cultures outside of Canada and North America, but it's certainly true in the Gulf, and that's where our Trade Commissioner Service can help you.

We have trade commissioners set up at our missions in five different missions throughout the Gulf. So those are in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, in the UAE, as well as in Doha, Qatar, and in Kuwait. So if you're planning on doing business in any of those countries or considering them, our trade commissioners stand ready to support you, have an initial conversation.

And most importantly, make sure that you're connecting with the right people because sometimes, power can be quite concentrated in a given industry or within a certain company. So you want to make sure that you're touching base with the right person. And our embassies and our missions across the world can help you with that.

In terms of how to go about doing that outreach-- of course, there are trade missions, as Jan mentioned, and there are a number of trade missions which are currently being planned and are in the works by provincial governments. Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Alberta-- they're all sending trade missions to the region for specific industries at different times.

Some business councils, bilateral business council like the Canada-Saudi Arabia or the Canada-UAE business councils are also setting up trade missions. We may end up having one at the federal level this year. I am personally pushing for it, but I'm not the ultimate decision-maker. So getting involved in those is a really great way to get your first step into the market. You get to meet with high-level folks. Again, decision-makers meeting with those decision-makers in the Gulf countries is really, really key. And this will give you access to those decision-makers that you might not have if you went by yourself.

The other way, other than trade missions, is to consider going to a trade show. The Gulf is a global trade show hub, probably number one or number two in the world. They have trade shows for absolutely every industry, and they're very big and significant. Some of the ones that just come to mind right now are Arab Health. There's the Future of Minerals Forum, which is now the second-largest mining forum in terms of number of participants after PDAC. UAE has AI of everything, and they have LEAP. So this is another way to go and do a one-stop shop and meet a number of players in your industry that are not just from UAE or Saudi Arabia or Qatar or wherever, but also other international companies that are working there and get to understand what they're doing.

So how to unlock all of this, I would recommend that companies get in touch with their regional office. There's trade commissioner offices in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and the Atlantic, and Prairie provinces as well. So get in touch with your local regional trade commissioner service office, which you can just find online.

There, we will have specific exports experts for helping you export whatever the thing is that you do in your industry, and they'll be able to connect you with our people over in the Middle East. And then the last thing I would say that is, if you do decide to go to market, make sure to get in contact with our embassies beforehand so that planning can happen before you arrive and make sure the right connections get made.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thanks, Sean. You spoke about the importance of personal connection-- so trade missions, trade shows-- but what about institutional mechanisms in place for trade partnerships with MENA countries? And how can we use those better?

SEAN CORNELISSEN: Sure. So Ambassador AL Rafie actually covered a lot of those. So I'll speak of the three what I consider to be main institutional things we've set up, government to government, in order to help facilitate business in the Arab world and throughout the world, but particularly in the Arab world or in the Middle East. With regard to free-trade agreements, it's true we only have two in the region-- one with Israel, one with Jordan.

The next most important, I would say, is the foreign investment protection agreements. So FTAs have foreign investment protection agreements within them. FTAs obviously facilitate free trade, but then there's also always an investment chapter, which helps to ensure that your investments won't get expropriated. Or if they do that, you get paid back for it, all that kind of stuff.

So sometimes we just have FIPAs without the trade part. And for that, we have FIPAs-- Foreign Investment Protection Agreements-- with Kuwait, as well as with Egypt. We are currently negotiating FIPAs with the UAE and with Qatar, and we're in very early-stage conversations with a couple of the large Gulf countries to have foreign investment protection agreements.

The last one I wanted to mention, which is often overlooked but actually can sometimes be most important for Canadian businesses looking to do business abroad, is double-taxation agreements. So we have double-taxation agreements currently set up with the UAE, with Oman, and with Kuwait. I'm not sure about the other Middle Eastern countries because I don't work on them. But with those three countries, we do. This is how that finance Canada because it's all the tax stuff. So we're currently looking at more double-taxation agreements for some of the other large Gulf countries. And again, this is not to be overlooked because you can save a lot of money repatriating dividends and that kind of stuff if you do business in the Gulf.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Well, given your comments, Sean, I'll turn it back to Ambassador Al Rafie because you mentioned the FTA. How do you find that relationship has gone? Has the FTA been an effective vehicle to increase trade such that it would be an attractive mechanism to other Arab states?

SABAH AL RAFIE: Thank you, Ruba. Thank you for highlighting the existing FTA. So the FTA between Canada and Jordan was signed in 2009 and entered into force in 2012. To give you an indication in numbers, to give a clearer idea, in 2024, Jordan and Canada traded a total of $157 million, with Jordan's exports exceeding imports by $45 million. So we are safe to say that the agreement has yet to meet our shared goals.

The private and public sector are yet to work on utilizing the FTA. I would attribute that to the lack of awareness of the agreement and its benefits among exporters and importers from both countries, plus the cost of marketing, networking among partners and exporters and importers from both countries. That would place a burden mainly on small and medium enterprises in particular. So if we are to move forward, we need to leverage on the existing FTAs. And if we are to think of expanding FTAs with other countries in the MENA region to ensure the tariff-free access, we need to deepen bilateral engagements. We need to enhance trade financial options. We need to expand on trade missions, on targeted sectors, as my fellow panelists highlighted.

So for Jordan, during 2024, both embassies in Amman and in Ottawa, encouraged and facilitated a number of trade missions to Canada-- participation of food industries companies in CL for the second time, and this year there will be another bigger participation; the participation of the Minister of Energy and Mining in PDAC last year to promote investment opportunities and to build partnerships with Canadian expertise; the participation of public and private sectors in ICT. It was a mission that did a roadshow; and participated in collision with-- Ruba, you explained, there was a follow-up webinar with CABC very recently. And these resulted in several collaborations. One of them was a collaboration between a Jordan-based company with Waterloo University in animation industry.

These are all examples of how awareness can be created of the FTA and what the both countries have to offer. Most importantly, is to develop and encourage bilateral trade and business councils. So this will help to establish strong relationships between the private sectors and understand the different business cultures each country specifically, as fellow panelist explained, and create long-standing, reliable partnerships. So this is my perception of the present situation of the bilateral FTA and how we can insist to bring the numbers to reflect the historical relationships. Thank you.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you, thank you, your Excellency. Ambassador Hafez, what are your thoughts on the effectiveness of an FTA, given Her Excellency's comments, versus other mechanisms Mr. Cornelissen spoke about being FIPAs and bilateral tax treaties? Oh, I think you're on mute. You're still on mute.

AHMED HAFEZ: Oh, Yes. Ruba, thank you so much. I do have a lot to say. And first of all, I would like to thank, Jan, for what she just said so eloquently in really describing to all your audience here, in two words, the real crux of the problem, which is "proximity" and "familiarity."

Now, when you talk about barriers, there are no barriers for Canada when it reaches out to the world. The only barrier comes from within, comes from what you think. That's why when I hear, as I said, diversification of trade or diversification of investment, I always say it's diversification of mentality. And it has to come not just from the government. So Sean can do his best, but it is not enough. It has to come from the businesses themselves.

So I think the symptoms of what we're all facing, in Canada, as well as what we're seeing from our side-- whether in Jordan, Egypt, and other countries-- the symptoms of the situation, I think, is clear. We don't need to bust its chops. We know it completely. What we need to see is how we can find the prescription for the solution. And the prescription here needs to look beyond the actual problem.

And again, I'm reiterating here what I said, that, yes, there is a deficit in knowledge, there is risk aversion, there are limited networks, there is a focus on a certain market because it's easier. This is all OK. But then you have other countries that have actually had this jump and a leap of faith in other markets. Now, Canada may be realizing this today. That's good.

You can also have this market and the American market and many other markets. But the idea of not wanting to take that leap of faith, while all these credit rating agencies speak about how we have been evolving in the Arab world-- Egypt included-- how international organizations have been coming out with reports that put Egypt at 4% and 4.5% just this fiscal year in terms of growth, when you see flow of capital on financing, macroeconomic indicators in Egypt showing what we're showing, and there's increased investor confidence in investing, which I call the 3D approach because you invest-- you're like in a marriage. Or, when you see investor confidence even in just trade, which I call 2D, you can have a purchase order, you want to see a product, you import it, you like it, then maybe six months down the line, you can come and invest in that country.

So whether you want to trade or invest in our countries, we are ready. When you see other countries doing that, and if Canadians don't do it, then that is the barrier. It is the familiarity and the proximity and the fear of going out of the comfort zone. No other institutional framework can help you with that. And with all due respect to FTAs and FIPAs, that is good and dandy. We have this with many other countries-- Egypt, Jordan, and so many other countries. But the proof is in the pudding.

When you look at the FTA-- and it's not my word saying this, her Excellency Ambassador of Jordan just said being a party to that FTA, that she doesn't feel it has reached that type of value that we want to reach. And in all honesty, as a government bureaucrat, I can tell you that, yes, a free-trade agreement, a FIPA agreement, all these are good, but they're not a solution in and of themselves. What is needed is the actual momentum by the businesses themselves. They need to actually look forward. They need to seek opportunities. They need to do their homework.

Sean, for example, spoke about how trade missions were sending them here and there. It's not just about trade missions, Canadians, because you can only send as many trade missions-- I mean, only so many trade missions. I think what's more important is also seeing when you have Arab businesses coming to Canada and knocking on your door, they need to be received. They need to be taken seriously as well.

I remember a businessman telling me this several months ago, and it was actually a very interesting discussion. He said, listen, ambassador, you need not to bring us to the mountain. We want the mountain to come to us. And hence, that actually brought the whole agenda of my own tenure here in Canada. I'm discussing this with Egypt, telling them, listen, if we want their attention, we need to come to them.

So now when I bring a delegation that comes and visits four cities and we have an event, a business forum in Toronto and a business forum in Montreal, this is something that we expect to see. If there is interest, then OK, the mountain has come. You don't need to come to us. We have come to you. And these are practical businessmen. They're coming in with proposals, cash flow analysis, discount factors, net present values, the whole nine yards when it comes to economic feasibility study. If they are not seen seriously, then this is the real barrier. It is not about what we can do. It's not about what we can sign.

Egypt does not have a free-trade agreement. But at one point, a couple of years ago, our trade volume had neared $2 billion between both countries without a free-trade agreement simply because the businesses wanted to do business. So this is what I think. If somebody wants to do business with-- and I can speak about my country-- look at the diversified economy, look at the incentives for investment, the developed infrastructure, the competitive tax rates.

Corporate tax rates are around 22%. The main theme in Egypt now, with a country that I think is working in a hurry, is to empower the private sector, domestic and international. This is our main objective. We have free zones, tech zones, investment parks with a lot of less government presence and regulation, increased FDIs, trade agreements and access to-- and, of course, it's a gateway to Africa. But again, I don't want to be philosophizing this. You come to Egypt, you see it. If you can't come to Egypt, then meet the people who are coming. People who are asking for B2B meetings.

Sometimes, unfortunately, the bureaucratic situation that we all face in our bureaucracies, somehow it encroaches even on businesses in Canada, which is-- I must be a bit sober when I say this-- it is bewildering for us when you see businesses being infested with bureaucracy of their own type in a country that I think that can help itself with such an immense pool of resources. And it has potential as Canada for us, but also it has a potential for it with us. And it's not just about exporting Canadian products. It is also about how you can import competitively priced products from different areas of the world, and that is how you can have interests that work together. Thank you.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Yeah, your comments are much appreciated. It sounds like FTAs are not the end all, be all-- that a lot of it is in the attitude. Bachir, just over to you, what would you say to those who are concerned about setting up businesses and markets that have diversified legal structures, different taxation rules, and otherwise concerned about if things go wrong, right?

BACHIR CHAKRA: Yeah. So picking up from my last point, in which the panelists have already touched on, it's important to note that each country has its own laws and regulations for doing business. And so the MENA markets do require thorough research, legal compliance, and strategic planning for successful entries.

In terms of protecting investments and proper tax planning, with or without double taxation treaties and FTAs, businesses still do need to do their homework, which is what His Excellency mentioned at the onset. That means that due diligence and engaging with the consultants who are based on the ground are important. Equally-- again, what His Excellency mentioned-- knowing who you're dealing with and meeting with them when they do show up at the footsteps to your doorways and what the potential risks are and pitfalls are and how best to caveat for and control those risks and pitfalls, how to manage and resolve disputes, and what suitable model to choose for a business setup or venture beforehand are key, key prerequisites. I cannot stress how important all those requisites are.

Having the right contractual documentation, which local counsel in the concerned jurisdictions will have already reviewed for compliance with the laws in force within those concerned jurisdictions, is also key. Safeguarding one's IP assets, just to mention, contractually and through national registrations beforehand is much advisable, especially when you're entering a new market that you've never been in before. And it's also often a requirement when contracting with certain government entities.

So of equal importance, I'd say also is agreeing with the local counterparts to the contracts you're entering into it at the onset to alternative dispute resolution mechanisms such as mediation, conciliation, and arbitration for addressing conflicts if things do go wrong, and the transaction contemplated does really merit that. Litigation before-- I just say this-- that litigation before some local courts, not all of them, depending, again, on the jurisdictions concerned and types of disputes that may arise, can sometimes be protracted and costly with unpredictable results.

Noteworthy is that all GCC countries and most of the MENA countries are party to the New York Convention on the recognition and enforcement of foreign arbitral awards. So that should provide some level of comfort to businesses seeking to enter the markets within the GCC. I'll leave it at that.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: OK. Thanks, Bachir. And I was saying earlier, I think we need a series of webinars because there's lots of ground to cover.

BACHIR CHAKRA: Absolutely.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: We've got about eight minutes left. So just turning quickly to our third topic-- and you actually mentioned this about market entry-- the question is, where do Canadian companies who want to enter the MENA market start? It can be a bit daunting to enter a new market. And just briefly, Ambassador Hafez, you spoke earlier about how trade agreements are not necessarily the solution, at least not without the proper trade attitude. Could you just briefly expand a little bit on the importance of local presence and market entry strategies?

AHMED HAFEZ: Of course, absolutely. Just for the audience to know, before joining the foreign service, I used to work for the private sector. I worked for a company by the name of Procter & Gamble. So for some reason, when I actually put the hat of a bureaucrat coming into the foreign service for almost 25 years, I still have some essence of what I used to do in the private sector.

And when I speak to a lot of businessmen, I think I would like to believe that I understand where they're coming from. I can understand their frustrations, whether it's Egyptian businesses or Canadian businesses. And hence, I try to feel as if I am the one now being an ambassador, how I can lubricate between both sides. And more often than not, I feel that they're actually speaking totally different languages. And when you talk to them about, we've got the free-trade agreement or we have a FIPA agreement or we have this MOU, many of them just get bored to death because, for them, it's like, OK, fine. You're telling us that this is how you're paving the road for us, but we want the matchmaking process.

Now, the matchmaking-- we know that you can't really hold a business and cross the street with it. You cannot come to a person and say, OK, listen, this is what you want to do in Egypt. Let me take you on. But you can have, through our commercial offices as well, which is akin to the Canadian Trade Commissioner Service, we do the same job as well. We have a commercial officer, a head of a commercial office in the embassy of Egypt in Ottawa. He does the matchmaking. He helps to do B2B. He connects the buyers and the sellers.

But if he gets the questions, if people get to know about that, or people who even know about this commercial office, they're reluctant to actually think of, OK, I'll do business in Egypt or not. Again, it's all the issue of risk aversion or proximity or familiarity or maybe, oh, I'm hearing that there is a certain situation in the region. But if they actually do that digging and research, I think that is the biggest hurdle.

What can we do as our countries to build that bridge to help and to generate awareness? The most that we can do, as I said, is to continue to bring delegations here and trade missions from your side to us. And our commercial office works day and night, answering emails from people and connecting them to companies. It's free of charge. We help them. We do this.

And many of them actually came back and told us, listen, it was a successful trip. We went to Cairo. Cairo seems great. We've met so many local partners. We actually can do business with them, and we're going to import maybe 50 or 60 containers. And we'll see if this is great. We'll continue to expand and possibly even just invest in a small manufacturing facility in Egypt. Many Canadians have done that. And many Canadians as well have seen, for example, stuff that has to do with the economic zone in Egypt. And seeing other countries doing it, they said, we can actually come and work as well.

But many others have not yet, and many others are still reliant on thinking that the government, whether it's through free-trade agreements and all this, can help. It is not. Unless, unless-- and again, very honest and frank with a lot of your audience-- unless you are a country, let's say country X, where the government actually sets a certain policy strategy for their businesses, like a country X that says, you know what? Let's go to Europe these days. We need to work with the Europeans. Then it becomes as if it's more of a mandate for all businesses.

But this is not the case in Canada. Each business has its own mind. They can do whatever they want. All we can do as countries like us-- whether Jordan, Egypt, the GCC-- is to promote, pave the way for people to come and to work with us. We, anyway, have testimonials that show we're doing great. If you read the international reports, credit ratings, Fitch ever-- and again, I am willing, with my commercial office, to show more and showcase more of this. As I said-- and I don't be too lengthy-- but again, if somebody wants to join us in our business forum that we're having in Toronto on the 7th of April, please send us an email on the email that I just said.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you.

AHMED HAFEZ: Thank you, Ruba.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Just, ambassador of Jordan, for a period quite recently, we had a record five Arab women ambassadors to Canada, and you were one of them. And actually, Jordan was the first of the Arab states to send a woman ambassador about eight years ago, I believe. And you're aware that diversity and inclusion has become embedded within Canadian culture, and this matters to Canadians. Could you comment on the shifting attitudes towards women across the region and how women entrepreneurship has become a key mandate?

SABAH AL RAFIE: Yes, Ruba. Thank you for the question. Well, Jordan has achieved, under royal directives, great strides in developing an appropriate environment that would support the role of women and empower them in all areas of life, in order to ensure women are present in decision-making positions and at the forefront of development and progress. In that came the realization that women's economic participation is not a luxury.

MENA region loses up to $600 billion annually in regional income due to gender-based discrimination. The percentage of women entrepreneurs in MENA who own or manages businesses barely reaches 5% compared to 25% average globally. For instance, in Jordan, studies expect that increasing women's labor force participation by 25% from the present 15% could grow the GDP by 10%.

So in order to tackle this, the region is working on-- amongst them, of course, is Jordan-- on improving regulations to address gender disparities and foster collaboration between, of course, the private and the government sector to develop inclusive policies and practices on the ground, to conduct campaigns to raise awareness about equality and investment opportunity, and, most importantly, to ease the difficulties that women face in accessing business support services and networking and training opportunities.

There are lots of initiatives, local and regional, in the region to create the awareness of the importance of women and inclusion in entrepreneurship support and show the positive results on the ground. I will not elaborate further. I will leave it at this point. Thank you.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, things seem to be moving at lightning speed in the region on that front. And if I may seek the indulgence of the audience for just an extra few minutes, Jan, just based on your experience, your extensive experience with the Toronto Board of Trade, could you speak to some of the existing or recommended programs that would allow Canadian business to have ready access to growth markets in MENA?

JAN DE SILVA: Sure, Ruba. Recognizing your time is compressed, why don't I combine my two questions that you've got for me into one response? There is a program that was developed in Toronto that's rolled out across the country in partnership with Export Development Canada, called the Trade Accelerator Program. This is designed for small- and medium-sized businesses to help them develop an export strategy and also to understand the priority markets for their sector. I'd be happy to share information after this event on that.

What I would like to talk about-- and this is anticipating that many of your clients on the call would be in the larger category of businesses-- I'd like to talk about the role of our supply chains in key sectors in Canada and associations and business councils. And this is a live work in progress that's happening. You mentioned off the top that I represent Canada on the APEC Business Advisory Council. It was having a seat at that table that the discussion of power constraints, sustainability goals, powering the digital economy has been a front-and-center topic.

Canada is one of a handful of tier 1 nuclear energy countries. And our domestically developed technology is in a class of its own, offering energy security, supply chain localization, and even medical isotopes as a byproduct of our technology. Through this APEC Business Advisory Council, the question was raised-- had the time come for Asia, after Fukushima, to start thinking about nuclear energy as a viable source?

Having had that seat at the table over the past 24 months, we've engaged our Canadian nuclear sector and our trade commissioner services on virtual roundtables, outreach to the APEC business advisory, government-to-government engagement, and even last November, through Canada-ASEAN Business Council, we launched the Canadian Nuclear Energy Working Group. This is a collaboration of all elements of our supply chain, from technology to operations to regulatory and capacity building. Our focus is simply multiyear engagement and profile building across the region.

We've got partnerships with the ASEAN Center for Energy. We've got direct engagement with trade commissioner services on the ground. We're helping with programming for team Canada trade missions. We're providing speaker support for inbound delegations. I'm very excited about the potential for this to have far more impact than a company-by-company approach. We've got really good traction.

And what's now starting to happen is we've actually got major investment groups out of Asia looking at investment in Canada in areas like powering data centers and how they can build joint ventures to develop and bring expertise back to Asia because they're seeing a 40-year horizon for this kind of energy development. So I think this is a really interesting live case study for us because Canada doesn't have the balance sheet to compete with other tier 1 nuclear countries, but we've got breadth and depth of experience that's best in class. And our ability to come together as a whole, I think, holds tremendous promise. So let me stop there and turn it back to you. I apologize for going so long.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: Thank you. Thank you, Jan. You focused on necessity, strategy for entering the supply chain. The ambassador has talked about the importance of relationships. Sean, just quickly, as some concluding comments, could you comment on some of the Canadian success stories that leverage their relationships to maximize their chance of success? Which stories might incentivize some of our audience members?

SEAN CORNELISSEN: Sure, absolutely. And I'll be quick noting the time. I'll talk first about investments and about trade. It's very difficult to choose, actually, which investment story successes of the last couple of years to look at because there's just been so many. But Manara Minerals, for example, out of Saudi Arabia. Its CEO, by the way, is a Canadian-- Pierre Chenard. It recently invested 3.5 billion Canadian dollars into Valley Base Metals, which is based in Vancouver. Again, this is to feed their industry base.

There's been a number of other cash injections into Canadian mining companies from the Gulf. Mubadala, which is one of the big sovereign wealth funds in the UAE, has put over $50 billion of investments in Canada in a ton of different sectors. So, for example, they're invested in part in a number of Canadian ports in Vancouver, Prince Rupert, and Nanaimo. Last year, they bought CI Financial, which is a really large Canadian mutual fund creator and holder. They spent almost $5 billion on that. That was just a few months ago. So those are just a couple of examples on the larger scale.

In terms of trade and the presence of Canadian companies, so Canadian companies are flooding into the UAE and Saudi Arabia. I 100% heard what the ambassadors were referring to with regard to hesitancy and how far away it is. But Canadian companies really are voting with their feet, and we're seeing something quite different just in the last year or two in Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

There's over 200 Canadian companies in the UAE now. There's over 60 Canadian companies based in Saudi Arabia or that have regional offices there. There's tons and tons of opportunities for engineering and construction firms, and they're getting a lot of big contracts in Saudi Arabia because of all the building that's happening there. Saudi Arabia is going to host FIFA 2032. Saudi Arabia is doing Expo 2030, and they're building this huge NEOM project, terraforming the desert in the South-- crazy infrastructure projects, and Canadian companies are getting some of these contracts.

I'll just give one example to close. This just happened a few months ago, a Canadian company called CarbonCure. They have technology that captures CO2 when you're making concrete into cement. And they just got a large project at NEOM. So the NEOM, that terraforming project I mentioned in the South-- tons and tons of concrete being used. This Canadian company just got a big contract there. So there's lots of success stories, and they're really blowing up in the last couple of years.

RUBA EL-SAYEGH: That's great, Sean. Thank you so much for that. I think that's very inspiring. And Bachir, in the interest of time, my apologies, I have to skip over your question, but people know how to reach you and to learn about the incentives, the legal and business incentives. They've got your information.

But I'd like to thank the panelists for their time and insight. It's certainly a lot of helpful information to digest. As vice chair of CABC, I'd be remiss to not mention how business councils like CABC could help you. And with Gowling offices in Dubai and Riyadh, anyone looking to enter the MENA market would have both legal support and network support, so please feel free to contact us any time. We're here to help.

Finally, I will remind the audience to respond to the survey, which will be accessible via QR code on the screen, as well as linked in the chat. And again, a recording of today's session will become available in the coming days. A reminder that the next webinar in our series will be held on diversifying into the Asia market, with a date to be announced soon, but please keep an eye on your inbox for future invites.

And finally, to stay up to date on key insights on the tariff storm, a link to our tariff hub will be sent to you, where you will also find a recording of the first of our webinars on diversifying into the European market. So thank you again, everyone, for your time. To all the panelists and to all our audience members who stuck around, thank you, and have a good rest of the day. Thank you.